Comments on: SQL – does exactly what it says on the tin

By: Those with a datasmith’s hammer, see every problem as a table. | Gobán Saor

Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:51:03 +0000

[...] SQL – learn the basics of selecting, joining and group-by; again no need to become a master; SQLite is not only an excellent way to learn SQL, it’s also a powerful tool to have once you’ve picked up the basics. [...]

By: LightSwitch & Hobo – the return of the 4GL? | Gobán Saor

LightSwitch & Hobo – the return of the 4GL? | Gobán Saor — Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:04:42 +0000

[...] specialised, often loosing their once close links with the business, and even loosing sight of the value of business data as a resource in itself (still amazes me when I come across business application programmers with poor or non-existent [...]

By: SQLite XML Streaming Virtual Table via Expat « Gobán Saor

SQLite XML Streaming Virtual Table via Expat « Gobán Saor — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:45:52 +0000

[...] at heart a SQL Jockey, I also like to transfer XML data structures to relational ones at the earliest opportunity, [...]

By: Excel as a document-oriented NoSQL database « Gobán Saor

Excel as a document-oriented NoSQL database « Gobán Saor — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:49:00 +0000

[...] it may seem strange that somebody whose SQL – does exactly what it says on the tin post clearly marks him out as an RDBMS fanboy, can also sing the praises of a noSQL database. Are [...]

By: Tom Gleeson

Tom Gleeson — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:35:24 +0000

@Kragen

One man’s GPL is another’s DSL and yet another’s API, http://martinfowler.com/bliki/DslBoundary.html

“Excel formulæ aren’t even Turing-complete” – yet they still can ‘solve’ a huge range of problems, particularly when array formulae, named ranges and data tables are used.

As for “That doesn’t mean there is no objective measure of popularity.” – well as Fr. Jack Hackett would say “That would be an ecumenical matter!”

Tom

By: Kragen Javier Sitaker

Kragen Javier Sitaker — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:56:29 +0000

Microwave control panels and TV remote controls are not, in themselves, languages; typically the only grammar they support is place-value in numbers, a “DSL” that goes back thousands of years. CSV and URLs are complex enough that it makes sense to use parsing tools like PEGs or yacc to handle them, and to explain them to people as languages.

Any Turing-complete DSL, such as ECMAScript/JavaScript, is in some sense general-purpose, and over time it may become general-purpose. REXX and Perl followed that path, and JavaScript seems to be doing it too.

It’s true that the popularity we each perceive differs from real, objective popularity because of this network thing. That doesn’t mean there is no objective measure of popularity.

Excel formulæ aren’t even Turing-complete.

By: Tom Gleeson

Tom Gleeson — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:57:07 +0000

Hi Kragen,

Yes of course, you’re right (most definitely in the cases of HTML and Excel formulae; CSVs and URLs? why stop there, why not microwave control panels, SKY remote controls,Windows GUI, plain ascii text files; and I think those responsible for EMACScript would object to their language being described as domain specific), but I did say, perhaps, so I can’t be sued

And popular, well like as in high-school, popularity tends to be a function of the networks you encounter in your daily life. We all have own worlds and mine is that of data as a business resource.

As for Excel formulae, I’m blinded by the fact that I’m so in awe of the spreadsheet as a general purpose tool, I don’t regard it as ‘domain specific’ but as the hammer to hit everything be it a nail or not!

And yes you are again right, SQL is awesome.

Tom

By: Kragen Javier Sitaker

Kragen Javier Sitaker — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:49:00 +0000

Uh, which is not to say SQL is not awesome.

By: Kragen Javier Sitaker

Kragen Javier Sitaker — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 02:48:01 +0000

The world’s most popular DSL? What about HTML, JavaScript, CSV, Excel formulas, batch files, shell scripts, and the URL? And doesn’t Word have a little DSL for describing page headers and footers? And then there’s bbCode, Markdown, Textile, Wikipedia markup (you can program calendars in that!) and so on. SQL isn’t even close.

By: martyn

martyn — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:47:53 +0000

>>
Perhaps we need to formalise datasmithing as a subject area common to both IT and Business training. Covering areas such as Spreadsheets, database design, SQL, OLAP, applied statistics, ETL, data quality and governance etc.
<<

What a seriously great idea!

Martyn